IFR Approach without ILS

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Capitanfuturo
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IFR Approach without ILS

Post by Capitanfuturo » 03 Jan 2019, 21:02

Hello,

in between my flights on the 737 I have started having some fun with the old FSX stock cessna172.
I have spent some time making flight plans on sky vector using VOR to VOR navigation,

My problem is that when I do an ILS approach, it's fine because I use the ILS frequency,
but what if the airport I am going to, does not have an ILS, how can I align to the runway if I have no visual?

What I am basically asking is what should I search for on google or youtube as a tutorial?
I do not want to use GPS....

Thanks
Nic

rs3tier
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by rs3tier » 03 Jan 2019, 21:15

You need vor or ndb approaches which are designed to get you down to a minima where you must then be able to complete the approach visually or execute the missed approach procedure.

Rob

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JWS
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by JWS » 03 Jan 2019, 22:20

Nic,

check YouTube for tutorials about VOR or NDB approaches indeed. Keep in mind that such an approach is NOT an ILS-approach, so you have to study the charts carefully for the MDA, which will be higher than with ILS approaches.

Also study the time tables that indicate how many minutes per indicated airspeed it takes to get you near the point where you have to be able to see the runway. Good old timing (that's where your chrono is for). If you wish you can use the A/P to get a constant descend approach.

BR
JW

Capitanfuturo
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by Capitanfuturo » 03 Jan 2019, 22:36

Thanks, the timetables are what I am interested in, I get the point in a VOR approach that you fly over the VOR and then you follow the chart instruction
which will make you go outbound and then turn, but when do you turn?

I am looking at the VOR chart for RWY 09 of EHAM, I cannot see the times or I don't know how to look.
The other question, when do you start the timer at the start of the turn or the end? Since the turn could take a while :-)

I have to say, the 737 is fun and all, but this type of flying it's very interesting, it makes me want to start getting flying lessons
this is all my wife needs to hear now .... :-)

Thanks
Nic

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JWS
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by JWS » 03 Jan 2019, 23:28

For starters, runway 09 at EHAM is not to be used by Cessna's. :o
The speed table starts with 120 knots. You're Cessna won't even get that fast.

Try to find a smaller airport with GA possibilities. Rotterdam e.g. or airports in the USA. You can see on the charts where you have to make a turn. Usually you fly on an 45 degree outbound and at a certain distance from the VOR you'll make the turn (refer to the chart). NDB approaches will be a bit different (no radial help, no DME). Especially with a VOR (that has no DME) and an NDB timing will be needed.

Timer is started at FAF (Final Approach Fix), the moment you start to descend. If you want to know how much time it takes from FAF to MDA (or MAP in this case), divide the distance by your speed and you'll know how much time you have (if there is no time table available).
On some charts you see categories (A, B, C,D) that fly different tracks. Cessna is A.

Have fun.

JWS
Last edited by JWS on 04 Jan 2019, 14:08, edited 2 times in total.

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JWS
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by JWS » 04 Jan 2019, 09:16

Here is one of the many you can find on YouTube (search for VOR and NDB approaches"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtO7aA5JGdU.

JWS

vdbroeck.net
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by vdbroeck.net » 29 Jan 2019, 13:53

Pfff, and lets calculate the VDP 😊
Ok lets fly VOR 09 in EHAM with Autopilot.
Fly to SPL holding on FL070 speed +- 210 Kts.
Setup the approach. VOR1 SPL active PAM standby course 277. VOR2 PAM active course 085
FD captain side master AP A. Speed and altitude hold. Minimums 510.
When cleared Intercept radial 277 outbound SPL. Overhead SPL select VOR LOC. Set HDG 277.
Select 3000 ft and decent VS -1000. Go to flaps 1 speed 1 and flaps 5 speed 5.
At 11.6 DME SPL select 2000 ft and continue the decent. HDG Select and turn left HDG 115.
Set PAM active in NAV1 and set course to 085. Then Select VOR LOC. On Loc intercept set HDG 085
The final approach fix (FAF, decent point) is at 18.9 PAM. 2 DME before (20.9 DME) select gear down and flaps 15. 1 DME in front (19.9 DME) select final flaps 30 and Vref +5. Set altitude to 600 feet (next 100 above minimums.) At 18.9 select VS – 800. Use the table GS/VS on the plate. (140 Kts = 745 Ft/min)
Check distance vs altitude. At 18 DME 1715 Ft / At 17 DME 1400 Ft etc. Adjust VS if necessary.
At 900 ft to level off sound set go around altitude. (The autopilot will continue the decent.)
Disconnect at minimums.
Happy VOR approaches and landings.

Roel
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JWS
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by JWS » 29 Jan 2019, 19:12

vdbroeck.net wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 13:53
At 18.9 select VS – 800. Use the table GS/VS on the plate. (140 Kts = 745 Ft/min)
Roel
Actually, it's recommended (by Mike Ray) to start dialing in the - 800 VS as you reach FAF minus .3 NM, so at 19.2. It takes some time before the bird noses over.

Regards,

JWS

vdbroeck.net
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by vdbroeck.net » 30 Jan 2019, 12:47

Possible, it is SOP.
We selected -1000 on FAF and corrected later.
Both will to the job.

Roel

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JWS
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Re: IFR Approach without ILS

Post by JWS » 30 Jan 2019, 13:51

vdbroeck.net wrote:
30 Jan 2019, 12:47
Possible, it is SOP.
We selected -1000 on FAF and corrected later.
Both will to the job.

Roel
That is what Mike calls "agressively". :lol:

JWS

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